Healthcare - the uncomfortable underlying problem

They healthcare debate has been raging for over a year now yet I have not seen a single blogger, pundit, mainstream media outlet or politician address the true hidden undercurrent of the debate.  At it's core the healthcare debate comes down to economic, moral and ethical questions surrounding the equitable distribution of a scarce resource. 

Throughout much of recorded history medical care has been limited by knowledge and technology and possibly access to trained doctors to administer treatment.  While this is still true to a degree as there are obviously still things that cannot be treated, the key limitation to healthcare in this century will be the cost to provide treatments, not technology.  Like most things healthcare is subject to diminishing returns and eventually everyone must die no matter how much we spend. 

The single biggest problem with the US system has nothing to do with "evil insurance companies" or malpractice lawsuits or any of the other boogie men being blamed for all the countries problems.  No the biggest problem with the US system is our complete unwillingness to allow measures of cost effectiveness to be used to determine treatment options.  Yes this means that we may actually have to institute real "death pannels" that determine that $200,000 to keep grandma alive for a few more months just isn't worth it.  Human life does have a value and until our healthcare system overtly recognizes this fact and acts accordingly costs can never be contained. 

Essentially we have two classes of individuals in this country.  Those that have insurance which largely shelters them from the true cost of treatment and results in them demanding that anything and everything medically possible be done to keep them or their family members alive (Anyone want to bet how long Terri Schiavo would have been kept alive if her family was paying out of pocket for her hospital bills?)  The other has no insurance and must pay inflated out of pocket costs for even minor treatments and many times don't seek care for things that could be treated cheaply and easily.  The result is some fraction of the population paying very little for healthcare and recieving equally small benefits and another fraction paying way more than necessary to get just slightly better than average care (due to diminishing returns). 

The real core questions of healthcare boil down to just 2:

How much of our GDP are we willing to spend on healthcare? 

How should that amount be distributed? 

Every healthcare is essentially a different way to answer these questions. 

IMHO the best option would be to set some level of "minimum standard" of cost effectiveness that every American would be provided.  This would ensure that very few people in the US will die from easily treatable diseases and could be considered a right in the same way an education is considered a right within this country up to a point.  Beyond that point however it should be up to the individual and what they can afford through private supplementary insurance or out of pocket for any treatment beyond the minimum.  Sticking with the education analogy this would be like college.  It is a privilege for those that can afford it.  

For those familiar with the 80/20 rule (you can get 80% of the benefit for 20% of the cost), such a plan would take advantage of this phenomena in healthcare.  The gov't could provide or mandate the 20% of the costs that privide 80% of benefits while anyone who wanted to get the other 20% of the possible benefits could put up the other 80% of the costs out of their own pockets.   

Anyway that's one way that the costs could be distributed and how I would do it if I was elected king for the day. 

The main point of course is that we need to recognize that healthcare is a limited resource (or more accurately the money to pay for healthcare is limited) and how that resource is rationed in many ways determines how gets to live and who dies. 

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Who would decide the value of a human life? That is an integral question. Is the lawyer's life more valuable than the janitor's because he has a higher education and has a larger income? What if the lawyer is single whereas the janitor has 4 children and a spouse to support? Are women more valuable than men, or the other way around? What about the elderly compared to children? Would politicians decide what the human life is worth? Would it alternate between who is in power, say I am worth more under a democrat but less under a libertarian, or any combination that is possible. When would this worth start, at conception, at birth or at adulthood?

Another issue, since we pay taxes which would pay for governmental healthcare, should this not be part of the 80% of the costs  that you ask people to pay for the extra 20% benefits?

Fact remains that this solution has far too many unanswered questions.

by Korinas Vildras on 03/20/2010 02:45:29 PM EST

There is not enough money in the US to pay for everyone to get every treatment that could help them.  It's just not possible.  Given this reality, how do you believe we should allocate who gets what treatments and who should pay for them? 

 go

 PS this question is not just for KV, but anyone else who reads this thread.

by alphasigmookie on 03/20/2010 11:29:38 PM EST

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We can discuss ways to drive down costs in healthcare, but most of the cost problem comes from the fact that a large percentage of healthcare costs are labor.  Labor is something that is very difficult to outsource and labor in healthcare is highly specialized, requires significant education and all of that means that to get people to become doctors, nurses, PhD's developing drugs, etc. you have to pay them a lot of money, otherwise they will become lawyers, financial analysts, engineers or other high paying professional job. 

Your example of Argentina has a per capita GDP of $7.5k.  If we are to assume that doctors are paid similarly in relative terms in the two countries, the difference in costs can be almost entirely attributed to the doctors pay rate. In the US if you lower doctors pay you'll get fewer doctors but costs will be lower (lower cost and quantity of healthcare available).  If you raise doctor pay you'll get more doctors but higher costs (higher costs and more total healthcare available).  It's sort of works like inverse economies of scale. 

If you want to argue more about how to drive down costs I'd be happy to do that if you're willing to answer the question I just posed to KV.  

by alphasigmookie on 03/20/2010 11:44:44 PM EST

They healthcare debate has been raging for over a year now yet I have not seen a single blogger, pundit, mainstream media outlet or politician address the true hidden undercurrent of the debate. At it's core the healthcare debate comes down to economic, moral and ethical questions surrounding the equitable distribution of a scarce resource.

You must have been living in a bubble. Every conceivable angle has been addressed by someone.

Every economic system is the method of allocating scarce resources to meet infinite wants. The same system that is best at allocating 100% whole wheat bread, honey glazed spiral sliced hams and widgets is also the best at allocating health care.

Just because our government controlled system is more expensive than Lower Slobovia's does not mean even more government control will make ours better and cheaper.


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's "free."

by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsTwba on 03/24/2010 09:13:03 AM EST

I blame it on my rambling incoherence and inability to get to the point in a succinct way.  I'm a bit rusty and out of practice. 

Those that believe there is a possible system for providing every possible treatment to every American is delusional.  Every system rations care and determines at what point a treatment is "worth it", effectively putting a price on the value of your life.  There are really 3 main options, the decision is made by the government bureaucrat, the decision is made by an insurance company seeking to maximize profit, or the decision is made by the size of your bank account and your value over your own life vs. the financial health of your family. 

The last option is of course preferable to most, but it lacks the ability to spread risk and given the cost of care means that the choice of life isn't even an option for many.

One alternative insurance system I can imagine that leaves families with the choice would be the following:

If you become terminally ill, the insurance company can offer you say 75% of the expected treatment cost in cash and they will have no further responsibility to care for you.  It would be up to you and your family to decide to take the cash or get the treatment.  The choice will be yours and yours alone.  Such a system would probably go a long way towards reducing overall costs.  Unfortunately I doubt such a system would be viable now that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage.     

 Anyway there I go rambling again...

by alphasigmookie on 03/24/2010 09:42:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Every system rations care...

A free market does not ration honey glazed spiral sliced hams. A free market does not ration anything, not even health care.


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's "free."

by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsTwba on 03/31/2010 04:32:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I know this is a little late, but better late than never.

For such an avowed free market guru you know surprisingly little about them.  The free market very clearly rations care based upon price (using the broad definition of ration as any means of distributing a limited resource).  If you can afford care you get care, if you don't have the money or credit to get money then you don't get care.  Its a very simple means of rationing care but not terribly equitable and it could be argued leads to significantly suboptimal health outcomes.   

by alphasigmookie on 04/09/2010 04:14:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A free market rations nothing. A free market does nothing. It is just a legal framework within which voluntary exchanges take place.


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's "free."

by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsTwba on 04/09/2010 05:26:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]

In economics the term rationing frequently refers to any means by which scarce resources are distributed within a society.  It is a broader definition than you're used to hearing about with government controlled rationing during war time. 

In a free market the price and individual's willingness or ability to pay determine the distribution of healthcare.  Thus in a true free market when you get sick and you don't have money you die (or stay sick), if you do have money you live (or get better).   

Another form of rationing that occurred during the 70's oil shocks was "rationing by lines".  Those willing to wait the longest got gas, those who weren't went without.  I recently experienced this process when receiving "free" tickets to an advanced preview of Clash of the Titans.  In order to use your free ticket you had to arrive way early and wait in line.  The people who got in got there more than 1.5 hours before the movie started.  Given the cost of current movie tickets this implies that people value their time around the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.  Next time I'll skip the movie and just pay....  

by alphasigmookie on 04/09/2010 05:44:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thus in a true free market when you get sick and you don't have money you die (or stay sick), if you do have money you live (or get better).

I've been sick a few times and didn't bother to consult a physician. I got better. Doctors' waiting rooms are filled with people who would get better on their own, but their employment compensation includes prepaid medicine, so they visit for the slightest sniffles and coughs.

Many people with piles of cash consulted multiple physicians and still kicked the bucket. It is not true that money will always buy a cure. The rich die too.

And you never addressed the role of charity which does much more than provide AIDS treatments to impoverished Africans.


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's "free."

by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsTwba on 04/15/2010 06:21:22 AM EST

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