03/09/2010 12:44:24 AM EST

I Admire Dennis Kucinich

posted by pattilyn

because he stays true to his progressive beliefs.  Unlike 99 percent of the Democratic party, he doesn't compromise or go wishy washy for the good of the party or the good of the president like most of them do. He stays on the side of what's right for the people, and what's right period, and I admire that strength of conviction.

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What usually happens is he stands alone until time proves him right.  He was on Keith Olbermann tonight and said he will vote against healthcare, and would only consider it with a strong public option. Who else said that and is now singing a different tune? 

Kucinich went on to say that any reform built around a profit system is doomed to fail, and I tend to agree with that.  I'm torn though by the fact that some people will be helped by the current bill, in the short term anyway, and if that saves some lives, that's a good thing.  At the same time, unless the insurance companies have competition and strict regulation, we're still at their mercy, and we still have a system that is unsustainable.  Nothing in that bill limits what they can charge. So they cover everyone and anyone, but older people and sick people get charged three times as much.  If a person isn't poor enough for the subsidy and rich enough to pay the high premium, where does that leave them?  Paying a fine to the government for not having insurance?

Obama's a great speaker, but when it comes to health care, every time I hear him talk, no matter what he says, it rings hollow. He's made so many compromises that his words mean nothing.  It's about winning, him winning, the party winning.  Who does he keep his promises to?  The health insurance companies?  The hospitals?  Big Pharma?  The Republicans?  Not the people, that's for damn sure.  Like Cenk always says, the bought politicians do what their corporate overlords want. 

Obama says everything's been said about healthcare, every argument made.  No, Mr. President, not true.  Single payer was taken off the table before it was ever put on.  You silenced those voices, and those who will not be silenced get arrested.

Obama says we all agree that reform must be built around our existing insurance system. No we don't.  Now he's on the stump saying that this watered down compromised giveaway to the industry is not about politics.  Mr. President, please don't insult our intelligence.  Of course it's about politics.

It's too bad Kucinich didn't get farther running for president, he would take them on and kick ass just like Johnson did to get Medicare passed.  They're calling Kucinich the Ralph Nader of healthcare.  That title fits him.
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I Admire Dennis Kucinich | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
He (none / 1)
He already voted against Health Care Reform with a public option, so it's not about that.

He's a complete fraud.  He wants to kill this entire thing for his 15 minutes.  Fuck him.  He's no different than Grassley or Snowe or any of those other lying fuckers.  It could have everything he wants and he'll still vote no.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 07:02:53 AM EST

I think you're misinterpreting Kucinich's motive. (none / 0)
He wants to kill this bill for the same reason that I want it killed: it's a mirage, and it's biggest supporters are making fraudulent claims about how much good it will do for us.  Your cynical view that "It could have everything he wants and he'll still vote no" is, in my opinion, completely unjustified.

by EveningStarNM on 03/09/2010 08:10:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Re (none / 0)
Someone who'd vote against the public option because they want single-payer never wanted single payer or anything else in the first place.  He's using you, he's an L I A R, liar.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 08:30:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fiction by Night (none / 0)
That "public option" wasn't a public option and Kucinich did the right thing voting against it.

Single payer is the only real public option. Disagree with his stance if you want, but don't be such an MSM tool when it comes to descriptors...

by MedfordTim on 03/09/2010 11:50:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Re (none / 0)
He was for it just like Blanche Lincoln.

You're being used, he's a fraud who's in this for Dennis and only Dennis.  His bread is getting buttered quite nicely.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 02:28:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I think his stand is pricipled unless (none / 0)
you are one of the millions who lose everything they own because of a medical bankruptcy.  Or it is your 5 year old child laying on the bed dying because his benefit limits ran out.  Medicare and Social Security were crap when first passed.  Thank God people were not so short-sighted and ideological when they passed.

by kylewis on 03/09/2010 10:15:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Maybe you're right. (none / 1)
Maybe this bill is a path to something better.  However, I don't believe that comparing this effort with the initial Medicare and Social Security laws is valid.  Those programs started out offering a broad segment of the population tangible benefits, as well as helping alleviate problems that affected the entire country.

The current legislation does nothing.  They're talking about reducing the deficit by $100 billion over ten years.

THAT'S ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

$100 billion over ten years is INSIGNIFICANT.  We spend $2 TRILLION PER YEAR on health care.

The other "benefits" of the bill (for instance, the elimination of discrimination based on pre-existing conditions) are trivial and unnecessary.  In addition, the insurance companies already have programs in place to work around them by forcing people into high-risk, high-cost "pools".

I want the proposals currently before Congress to be killed.  I want a lot of members of Congress to lose their seats over it.  I want a fucking revolution!  I'm sick of the corruption that has saddled us with the crappy legislation we're getting that only cements the corporate robbery of our treasury and our national wealth.

by EveningStarNM on 03/09/2010 10:07:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't agree. (none / 0)

Kucinich is not a Republican.  If this bill had everything he wanted in it, he would (in my prediction) vote Yes in a heartbeat.  If the bill had even 40% of what he wanted, he would still probably vote Yes.

Kucinich's legacy can only be hurt by his voting No for a bill that had "everything he wanted."  He would be known as the stalwart Liberal in Congress who helped kill a great bill which would have realized a major plank in his agenda.  An enormous "lose" as judged by (Democratic) history.  The Republican Party's self-identified legacy here is in causing the failure of Obama's Presidency.  So Grassley and Snowe _help_ their legacy as Republicans by blocking this bill at all costs.  If it fails, and a Republican is elected, and this turns the tide of the country toward appreciation of Republican governance, that is a huge "win" as judged by (Republican) history. 

If Kuninich wanted his 15 minutes as he killed a Single Payer bill, he'd have to be aware that he was seeking this fame in direct opposition to his political foundation. 

by Milltycoon on 03/09/2010 08:45:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Re (none / 0)
Being for single payer is like being for world peace. You can clame the high road with some meaningless phrase while working to kill the path there such as the public option.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 02:32:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
YOU bought the line! (none / 0)
There isn't enough REFORM in this bill.

Your analogy sucks, by the way. I know you can do better. Single payer is currently in use and working very well, thank you, all around the planet. It is NOT an idyllic dream for cloud gazers. It is a reality we CAN accomplish - as long as we don't listen to corporatist apologists...

But, yeah, I'd rather take the high road any day. Why would I WANT to choose any other road?

by MedfordTim on 03/09/2010 03:19:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Re (none / 0)
Yes, the high road with the fame, power, millions & that luxorious private health plan he has that come on his faux high road. He's truly a man of the people.  What a brave soul.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 04:46:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I admire Kucinich's principles, but... (none / 0)
...he made two big -- and I mean really big -- mistakes that will forever keep him in the "nutjob" camp in the minds of the general public:  He handled about as badly as it could have been handled the UFO incident, and he put himself in a position where he was forced to apologize for criticizing the President.

Those two things aside, he's been right about everything else.  But his ability to be an effective spokesperson for the left has been mortally wounded, and I don't think it's in our interests to hang on to him.  We don't want the independents and undecideds to think that all of us on the left are nutjobs, too, no matter how unfair the charge against Kucinich might be.

by EveningStarNM on 03/09/2010 08:16:44 AM EST

Time will tell (none / 0)
The bill he voted no on had a public option but not a "robust" public option.  He felt the bill would ultimately make things worse, and I bet he will be proven correct on that.  He's not a fraud.  He voted no as a matter of principle.  Kucinich is a single payer advocate, and he doesn't compromise on that or anything else to go along with the party, which is why I respect him.

by pattilyn on 03/09/2010 08:22:14 AM EST

The only Nut Jobs are the ones supporting this bil (none / 0)

1. no public option at all.. none.. zip .. nada.

2. an FU demand to buy health insurance for everyone at whatever outrageous price the insurance demands.. because they have you by the balls.

3. If you are too poor to buy it, you get some sort of government assistance, how that will work will likely be a complete TARP like fund that will give billions more to insurance companies for garbage coverage.

4. DEBT EXPLOSION, the bill as is will create even more debt, that by 2020, 90% of your taxes will go to pay the INTEREST on the debt! According to the CBO!

Finaly, this is as I have said before a SUICIDE PACT FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. 

Good luck with that DLC OBAMBOTS.

by wowisdabomb on 03/09/2010 10:21:56 AM EST

Kucinich is fine (none / 0)
I don't think the Public Option is such a big deal, so if Dennis K. voted against a bill with a public option, especially if it was a weak option, then I don't hold that against him.  It's interesting how Bernie Sanders, whose commitment to single payer is as strong as anybody, is so much more of a pragmatist than Kucinich.

David

by yturks on 03/09/2010 10:59:32 AM EST

Problem from the start (none / 0)
One of the biggest problems is the term "public option." IT is so vague that it doesn't matter what either "side" says about it, they're probably right.

Should have gone with Single Payer or Medicare For All from the beginning.

Good thing I'm not in the Senate/House. I would vote against this piece of shit bill. It doesn't do what needs to be done. A waste of a year...

by MedfordTim on 03/09/2010 11:58:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Pragmatist = weak (none / 0)

Not always, but in this Senate at this time.  Politics 101 mandates that if Sanders and a few other real Liberals wanted a stronger bill, they HAD to hold out.  Joe Lieberman held out and made the bill much, much weaker.  The moment Sanders made a decision that he had to support this bill no matter what, his negotiating leverage became nil, and he was walked all over by the Corporatists who had no qualms about playing hardball.

The only way that defines "pragmatism" is if Sanders was content enough to get the worst bill imaginable, just to put a Yes on Obama's desk.  Rahm Emanuel would be proud.

Kucinich has infinitely more cover--his vote is probably not the difference between 218 and 217, unlike Sanders' vote, which was clearly the difference between 59 and 60.  But Kucinich (apparently) at least knows when too little is too little.  No one would have un-elected him in his Ohio district for "caving" with the rest of the House to voting Yes.  He could have explained his vote sufficiently (not to mention that half his constituents would want him to vote Yes), but he ...really doesn't like the bill enough to sign off on it.  Good for him.  What kind of backbone does Sanders have? 

by Milltycoon on 03/09/2010 04:00:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Off the wall question (none / 0)
Just wondering...how many mills do you have to own before being considered a tycoon?

...yeah, that's the kind of stuff I wonder about...

by MedfordTim on 03/09/2010 04:07:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Kucinich is right..... as always. (none / 0)
This bill does far more damage than good. I hope Dennis Kucinich single handedly kills the bill.

You Dems want something to show for health care reform? Then single payer or 100% Medicare coverage through reconciliation. Or bust.

Kucinich has staying power. The party cant strong arm him.

by Young Turk 87 on 03/09/2010 04:58:09 PM EST

facts (none / 0)
CBO estimates that by 2019 there will be around $4 million people enrolled in the public option, under the House bill.

That's right, just over 1% of the country will be in the public option IN TEN YEARS.

If you think either bill has a real public option, you are sadly wrong.

Is the bill a trojan horse for more substantive reform in the future?  God i hope so.  Am I optimistic?  FUCK NO.  

by dotkommissar on 03/09/2010 07:38:56 PM EST

he's what i call a rebel ... (none / 0)
totally agree with you. i caught the interview w/ kucinich on-line and his responses actually cleared up some of my questions. at first, i was getting all excited about the passage of this bill - without knowing certain facts. then, i got a little suspicious when obama was so gung ho about it. i'll admit that i voted for obama (it was either him or mccain ...) and i have been somewhat disappointed to see him falling in line as yet another "corporate man".

so yeah, what's good about this health care reform if there's no public option? all they're doing is guaranteeing the insurance companies MORE CUSTOMERS!! if they were to include a public option it would provide some sort of competition and a little incentive for the other companies to lower their prices. without it ...?

so as far as i'm concerned the kucinich's a rebel. a rebel is someone who'll stand up and voice his opinion in the face of slobbering hordes; a rebel won't back down when he feels the truthfulness of his conviction. i don't know if you've noticed but the dems are so amped about passing this that they're going after almost every dem who opposes the bill!

kucinich stands a chance of being maligned, villified - demonized! - and being labeled a 'kill-joy'! yet, he believes that he's right in his criticism of the bill as it stands now and he's not backing down. i give him MAD PROPS!kuciinich stated his position clearly and the reasons behind it - AND THEY MAKE SENSE!! 

by rebel2rebel on 03/09/2010 08:00:20 PM EST

You Have To Ask (none / 0)
why the Republicans never went after his seat seriously.  The district isn't that liberal, and Kucinich isn't popular locally.  Why would the GOP not make an efford on the one true liberal in Congress?

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/09/2010 08:01:14 PM EST

Probably for........ (none / 0)
The same reason Alan Grayson is winning in the Republican primary.  Regardless of ideology, the voters will go with the candidate who has integrity, stays true to core values, and does what's right, whether it's popular or not.

by pattilyn on 03/09/2010 10:44:30 PM EST

I Admire Dennis Kucinich | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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