Please explain to me what is up with Obama

Ok, so I read a little earlier tonight on Huff Post that Obama and his crew are considering more taxcuts, while also refusing to take Alan Simpson to task. Ok, so can someone please explain to me what is Obama's motivation? What is his end game.....

I am very serious about this. I simply cannot figure this out at all. I keep waiting for him to finally come around and start doing the right thing. But every which way you turn; you run smack dab into disappointment.

From Iraq and Afghanistan, to the economy, Senate Dems, and the Social Security, the guy is just plain "missing in action".
There has been a lot of discussion revolving around identifying where Obama stands on the political continuum. The word "moderate" is bandied around most often in describing him. Dictionary.com defines a political moderate as "a person who is moderate in opinion or opposed to extreme views and actions, esp. in politics or religion." This of course implies that in order for this definition to hold, that the "moderate person" must in fact hold ideas which fall within a broad consensus that is the most dominate "norm" of the community. I would argue however that even if this consensual norm is where the community stands, it does not necessarily mean that this norm developed based on rational thought, analysis, and reach of consensus.

How about an extremist, what is that? Dictionary.com defines an extremist as someone who is "a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices".

Ok, so let’s assume for the sake of discussion, let’s simply assume Obama is the one who is rational, reasoned and analytical in his thinking. My question, is assuming that he is acting from some point of reasonability, what is his motivation?

I have gone over and over this in my head and am at the point where I just am totally confused. So, it seems to me that you can few Obama's machinations in a number of ways:

A first way of interpreting his action is to see him as being someone who believes he is viewing the world around him with complete emotional detachment, and that everything he is doing is being driven solely by solid intellect and analysis. In this light, he consciously sough out people such as Geitner, and decided to follow "bi-partisanship" , seeing this as a natural extension to bring change as he saw it. That is, he sees himself as acting in a way which is completely rational and reasoned. He is not "triangulating" in any way out of a desire to seek "cover his butt" advantage, but simply as a natural extension of his philosophy. In this light, he sees these actions as the means through which he can achieve a set of goals. To some it might appear that he is simply limiting himself, but from his standpoint, he does not in any way see it this way. His actions are thus a natural extension of his basic intellectual framework through which he makes reference and makes decisions.

A second way of interpreting his action is to see him as someone who actually aspired to higher and more lofty goals, but now faced with the "reality" of the effect of "the weight of the Presidency on his shoulders", has come to see that he must modify his approach to governance in a way that will allow him to achieve a set of goals, which, from his viewpoint, may or may not be similar or the same as the goals he had set himself in seeking the highest office of the land. That is, he has decided that he must make compromise, practical, intellectual, and personal to achieve some objective, whatever that may be. In this light, it may still be possible to explain and understand the choices he has made regarding policy, and the decisions he has so far made and which have resulted in his being surrounded with the people who so now do so, in this light. At this point, he is still being intellectually consistent.

A third way to view his action is simply to believe that in fact, he really never meant to go as far as some, for example, myself, thought he would. In this scenario, it means I have been played for a fool. Obama simply chose to use a cynical ploy to get my help and support, never intending to bring the kind of change I believed he was promising.

Finally, the last way to view his actions may lay in admission that John McCain, irony of ironies, was right. Obama did not have the tools and experience to be President, and that his actions represent his basic inability to interpret situations, and make decisive and meaningful decisions in areas policy, political, and moral.

It is a given that for the sake of discussion, he is a moderate. That is, he is making decisions that a reasoned and rational, AS HE VIEWS THEM. So, if he is a moderate, and if his thinking in some ways represents some norm of thinking, then which of the above four scenarios most closely represents where he is on the grand scale of things? I am serious about this; I really want someone to explain this to me. I just don't understand what this man’s motivation is.

We have all used language that describes Obama as possibly some kind of "supreme chess player", who will make the killer move at some appropriate time, at which point all will fall into place. Ok, when is that going to occur; WHAT IS HIS END GAME? (Capitals for emphasis, not yelling). I don't get it.

As far as myself, I guess I would call myself an extremist. I believe in single payer; we have more than enough real world examples that show this is the best approach to providing health care. I believe the wealthy should be paying taxes at pre Regan rates; Krugman, Stiglitz, Reich have all already shown why this makes sense. I believe in investment in "the commons"; I am a real Keynesian, invest when needed then cut back the spigot as things pick up. I believe in a women's right to chose, based solely on the fact it is her body; it has nothing to do with privacy. Frankly, I don't care what someone else thinks what someone can or cannot do with their body. I don't believe the state has the right to wreak vengeance for criminal conduct through the use of capital punishment; whether someone is innocent or not, is irrelevant to the question of the morality of state sanctioned massacre of "criminals". I believe in staying out of wars of conquest, and economic goal. I believe in a full blown, and sole existent public school system, in which public monies does not go to private institutions. I believe in the right of any one to marry if they so chose; the true history is that marriage was initially created as a contract; it has nothing to do with trying to win the favor of some "sky spook". And finally, I believe we have an absolute responsibility to look after our brothers and sisters regardless of circumstance, means, or desired end. If this is extreme, then so be it, I am happy to accept this title.

So how about it folks? What the hell is up with the President?

Thanks to all.

Respectfully.


< Cenk's Dylan Ratigan Clips (4) from Thursday 9/2 | Restore Truthiness >
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you have had 2 years of experience with borat.

you will have 2 more years of experience.

then you will have the constitutional right to vote him out of office. if you succeed in this, it will be borat, not you, pondering what is going on in the minds of the american people.

instead, i will guarantee you that come election 2012, you will not have the guts to teach borat a lesson for betraying your trust and your vote in 2008, and will once again crawl back to him, crying from fear and cowardice and the inability to vote for real change (because that would have to come from somebody "unelectable").

you really want to know what is on borat's mind. he knows that he can do damn well what he pleases because democrat pussies will never vote him out of office. beyond that, golfing with bloomberg and wall-street bigwigs is the most important thing to get done in the few remaining warm weeks this year.

by neo on 09/03/2010 01:05:20 AM EST

Not much help. Thanks anyway.

by acramer on 09/03/2010 01:16:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You can't vote for a third party candidate in the United States because our electoral system is fucked, and changing the electoral system is impossible because you can't get the existing representatives to do it because they know if they allow it 2/3 of them will get voted out shortly thereafter.

So what is your solution, smartass?

by jarett on 09/03/2010 02:29:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Between all the talk of killing Social Security and giving more taxcuts to rich people, I'm getting a funny feeling in my stomach. I may not agree with the teabaggers on substance, but I understand their complaint about the republican party, because it jibes very well with my complaint about the democrats. I'm so mad I may start calling it the "democrat party". I read in that Huffpo item that Obama was focusing on taxcuts to avoid republican criticism of another "bailout" or a "stimulus".

Say Whut? Can you get a load of this guy? He thinks they're going to go soft on him now since he's pushing taxcuts? AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHA HAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAH HAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHA!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

I'm about through with Obama. I don't know what to say anymore. I don't know if I can be talked down.

What kind of a clown do you have to be as president to give us all that high rhetoric, and in the end turn out to be what bobo1 always said you were.

A hollow fucking shell.

God dammit this makes me mad. Say what you want about congressman McEwen with his orange tan. It looks like he and his are going to have the last laugh. They're going to get more of their agenda passed than they could have dreamed of under bush, and they're getting it in the midst of a 59-vote "democrat" majority in the senate. Its becoming clear as day that the republican/democrat axis is just a fraudulent cover for a criminal ruling party. Even the chinese communists treat their people better. At least they care about the future.

by hazmat on 09/03/2010 01:40:43 AM EST

I will comeout of my unofficial semi retirement to congratulate you fr coming to the conclusion i came to almost 2 years ago.

I am sorry that you are disappointed. let us stand toether to remove this regimefrom office in 2012.

:)

by bobo1 on 09/03/2010 07:34:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't want to stand "toether" with you. I'm a happily married man.

by hazmat on 09/03/2010 07:52:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Im still trying to contemplate "toetherness" myself...

In any case, I appreciateyour submission to my authority, and tell your wife I said hi...

:)

by bobo1 on 09/03/2010 08:07:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
bobo, you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag. If you want to take it as a "submission to [your] authority" that I view Barack Obama as a disappointment because he's acting like a republican, fine. You haven't been credible in my eyes for years. Your deference to Ken shows that you, too, are a hollow fucking shell. If you wanna discuss something with me, grow a pair. Of central lobes that is. You two deserve each other.

by hazmat on 09/03/2010 08:23:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Then you are the Commander in Chief.

I thank you sir for the honor of serving with you!

:)

by bobo1 on 09/03/2010 07:36:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
its the other half of the ambiguously gay duo


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 01:41:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
They ain't that ambiguous.

by OneHitKill on 09/04/2010 07:45:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Why is "gay" a derogatory term?

Because republicans are gay, see?

by OneHitKill on 09/05/2010 08:00:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is it good if Democrats like OneHitKill speak rudely and disparigingly of Gay-Americans?

I don't consider republicans Americans.

If the entire GOP was run by Log Cabin people

Oh, I'm DYING for that to happen.

by OneHitKill on 09/05/2010 09:16:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Nice list of delusional republiteaparty horseshit. What the fuck does this even mean?

>>"payoffs to UAW union thugs, federal employees, state employee pension funds, green energy boondoggles, Fannie, Freddie, subprime loan customers, and every other Democrat special interest group.">>

What payoffs? You can come up with all of your fucked up, delusional Glen Beck talking point rationalizations. But our money is going to 3 places - CORPORATIONS (not small business), The War/Industrial Complex, and Tax cuts for rich pricks. Obama SUCKS, but not because of asinine teabagger talking points.

Though I'm a member, I've never posted here, so I hope it's not like the HuffPost, where they disappear 80% of postings - especially when you tell a Republiteabagger they are full of shit when they're full of shit. Can you cuss around here? I guess we'll see..... (clicks "Post")

by thedeans on 09/03/2010 02:58:44 AM EST

collective trailer lagoon. We just never got around to emptying it.

by hazmat on 09/03/2010 03:09:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ok Hugh.

Well, first off, I guess I was wrong; this probably explains why I don't guest host on MSNBC.

Secondly, I don't know what you are talking about when you say Canadian-Floridian sock puppet. I guess you think I must be a "snowbird". Well surprise, surprise, surprise, and golleee! I am not; imagine that. So, that part of your thesis just blew up.

Thirdly, why does it matter? Well, eventually when you guys start doing stupid stuff, it infects us here. And that my friend is why it matters.

As for your vitriol, man, I am just sick of all the silly nonsense people spout, such as yours. Ok, well as far as your comments are concerned, my answer back...whatever!

by acramer on 09/03/2010 08:18:54 AM EST

Obama was pushing at campaign time.  The bankers paid for his victory.  The banker are the ones calling the shots.

Obama wanted to be President more than anything.  People don't run for President to change things.  They run for President because they are on an ego trip.  Obama doesn't give a shit about anybody but Obama.

He made a deal with the devil (Congress's leadership) and now he has to play the hand that was dealt him.  He has what he wanted, he's the President and even the birthers can't take that away from him.

If you expect anything more or less then you don't understand politicians.  Obama isn't going to run again in 2012, the birthers will crucify him so he is free to do what he wants,  play golf, hobknob with royalty, pretend to be presidential.  He can't fix the economic crisis, Bush completely fucked that up before Obama took office.  It's going to take 10 years to fix the economy.

There it is.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/03/2010 09:57:29 AM EST

I kind of belive that too. But how do we know that is what it is that explains his behaviour. What did he do that tipped this off. How do we know he is not just an opportunist? I am not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I want to be sure that I have read him right.

What can you tell me to understand this? That is why I posted this. I am not criticizing, but I just want to understand this. Can you give me some more info that will help me get a grip on this. I sincerely would welcome anything you could offer. Thanks for takng to reply as you have.

Cheers!

by acramer on 09/03/2010 10:19:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]

original posting.  He hasn't done anything he promised and appears to be acting more Republican than Democrat.

He didn't support a single payer plan at all.

He gave the bankers their new regulation plan.

Healthcare reform was gutted and delayed so it will never be implemented.

He is cutting taxes.

He has increased US troops in Afghanistan to support the drug trade and neo-con agenda.

He has left Robert Gates as Sec Def.

He has ignored the military and followed neo-con advice.

Rahm Emmanuel is his chief of staff.

He fired liberals for mere infractions and ignores conservatives gross mistakes.

He gave the bankers more than $5 trillion when you throw in the money for Freddie.

He is giving more money to the bankers when they are swimming in cash.

In short, he works for Wall Street.

In short he works for Wall Street.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/03/2010 11:06:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I'd score that 100%, mcamelyne. You called it, right down the line.

by RedPossum on 09/03/2010 01:35:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
we should start every progressive campaign with this and end with "We get fooled again."

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/13/2010 01:49:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]

wasted his political capital on health care. What he got out of this was a law that never even attempts to address the heart of the problem, which is cost, cost cost. He got a little on access and coverage, which is fine,but does not address the main issue. He showed that he lacked a spine, and it has severely damaged his "clout". If he would have made a stand over health care, and won, it could be different. But he didn't.

 

The US is in serious trouble.

by finerbiner on 09/03/2010 11:31:03 AM EST

Look, I get what everyone is saying. What I am asking though, is who Obama really is? Do we know, and if so, how do we know? I agree with a lot of what has been posted here. But I don't get how things got to here. Isn't there anyone here who can play this game (with apologies to Casey Stengel)?

by acramer on 09/03/2010 11:41:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]
acramer, I hear you. And as far as that lost of things at the end of your OP, what you said you believe in, dude! I'm completely with you on every one of those except capital punishment, and I'm willing to be persuaded on that issue.

But I'm afraid it's #4. Obama really is a total fucking poser. He lied to us, knowing he was lying. mcamelyne is right, uhhh, correct.

Sometimes comedy is the best format for expressing tragedy. Jon Stewart really did nail it in this clip

by RedPossum on 09/03/2010 01:43:08 PM EST

list, doh, list

by RedPossum on 09/03/2010 01:43:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He got to be where he is, because he learned how to suck up to power. Give him some credit though. He is facing a shit storm of problems, anyone of which can potentially destroy the country.

by mmosespt on 09/03/2010 11:02:32 PM EST

I really appreciate everything you guys have written. I guess I am still trying to find out who Obama really was. Is that the consensus that the guy is simply a policitical opportunist? If that is the case, what was his real intention do you guys think when he took office. I really wish someone could tell me what it was. I would welcome anyone's input, and don't mind being lectured at. So Cenk, or Sam S, or Ben M, or Richard E, or Michael S, or Anna K, or Jayar J, or Jesus K, or Tom H, or Dave (sorry Dave, I don't know our last name), if any of the big guns would take a shot at answering this I would reall welcome that.

Look, I am know I am a pain in the ass a lot of the time, and probably come across as irrationally emotional, but I would seriously like someone to read what I wrote and hazard a good guess on who Obama was and what happpened in terms of who he really was when he became Pres.

Any takers?

Thanks.


PS: If I missed any other "big guns", I apologize. I'm old.

by acramer on 09/04/2010 12:04:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
its a good place to start


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 01:44:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Big guns?

Pffft! What makes their opinion anything more than that of any of the rest of us? You think Cenk has secret White House lunches with Obama?

by RedPossum on 09/04/2010 05:50:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]

There are shades of #4 in him as well (the incompetent empty suit), but IMO that is an ingredient and not the whole cake.  It might be because he doesn't have the experience to get out of this situation that he keeps falling into it, but the bigger diagnosis is that he is at heart a Community Organizer--someone who cannot help but reach out to all sides and always try to reach consensus.  Take some from the Left, some from the Right, and chart a reasonable middle course.

The problem is that Obama only listens to the Conventional Establishment as his "Left" and the Conservative activist Tea Partiers and pundits as his "Right".  Conventional wisdom in Washington is pretty Rightwing at this point.  We _always_ need to strengthen Defense and show overwhelming muscle in tackling every foreign situation, tax increases are _always_ disastrous for the economy, the government is _always_ too invasive, Liberals are _always_ wide-eyed fringe idealists, and Rightwing Democrats like Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln are _always_ to be applauded for their "open-minded moderation" for crossing party lines.  The ideal Conventional Wisdom "Democrat" is Joe Lieberman, who is about 15% Liberal, and the ideal Conventional Wisdom Republican is Orrin Hatch, who is about 97% Conservative.

So Obama listens to the Conventional Wisdom Left who tells him constantly that he cannot get much change, that maybe 20-30% of the change he promised is feasible.  And then he listens to the Right, who say that the country should change 400% IN THE OTHER DIRECTION (i.e. more Conservative than we even are now).  And they are the louder and more unified voice.  The result is that Obama gives us 5% change (positively or negatively) and thinks he has mostly appeased his "Left" while also deftly giving some concessions to the Right.  Genius.  I really believe that within this bubble, Obama honestly _thinks_ he is threading the needle and at the same time bringing real change to the system.  And I also believe that, since the Left is mad at him, and the Right is (always) mad at him, he thinks he is prudently in the middle doing a fine job.  Massive drop in approval rating?  M'eh, that's just what happens when you get a little tough on both sides.

And this is why the WH snipes at the (actual) Left.  Obama thinks he is spending his term meticulously determining the exact ratio of change to forge the perfect compromise between his bubble of the "Left" and the Right.  And then we complain that he is giving us nothing (5% is basically nothing--Obama himself said that McCain would have given us 5% change), and he cannot process this disgruntlement other than to conclude that we are greedy/unrealistic and we want everything immediately.  In his mind, he is giving his "Left" plenty and we should be ecstatic about it.  He even feels that the Right should be pretty happy with him, since after all he did split the difference evenly.

So everything else is out of the equation.  The fact that the Right is NOT INTERESTED IN ANY COMPROMISE is not processed because his entire philosophy revolves around getting consensus.  He doesn't accept that no consensus will ever, EVER be possible unless he completely capitulates 100% to the Conservative position.  The fact that the polls show the country way further to the Left than the Conventional Wisdom is not processed because he has already chosen the Left side of his Washington bubble to listen to.  And Tim Geithner and Rahm Emanuel's job is to keep him inside that bubble and never let him believe that there is anything to the Left of it (there literally isn't anything to the Right of the bubble, so they don't have that issue).  

If conventional wisdom changed, which would involve the Democratic Party standing up for Progressive values, the Progressive movement forcing its way to the big microphones, and the media performing actual journalism rather than Establishment stenography, I would bet that Obama would naturally begin to skew toward the Left, since his Washington bubble would widen Leftward, making the "middle" of the bubble further Left.  Ergo, do I think he is a hopeless Establishment-corporatist shill whose actual governing philosophy is closer to the Right than to the Center?  No.  But he wants to be in the middle, and the middle between Center-Right Wishy-Washy Academic and the KKK is pretty damn far Right.     

by Milltycoon on 09/04/2010 12:28:48 AM EST

I dont' even know what to say to that.

You know my wife and I have talked about this a lot. We are inclined that he has a degree of elitism in him that he doesn't even see. It is almost like he thinks he knows what is best, and they we just have to trust him. I have looked at some of the things he has said, and the people who surround him and can't help but think that he is one of those guys who thinks that anyone who really works hard can make it. He sees himself therefore as being in a position to balance things out by being able to influence change as he sees it, that is consistent with his world view.

All I can say is that I must assume he really don't learn a hell of a lot while he was growing up about how people actually live their lives, and I don't think he understands that many of us just "can't make it", regardless of the changes he thinks are made to give everyone an equal chance. Its like he didn't notice that not everyone who worked with in the projects didn't make it and that sitting in reverned wright's chruch, while frankly, jets over his head.

What makes me say that is the choice he made of Arne Duncan as his secretary of education, the effort to distance himself for people like the Reverend Wright (if you can distance yourself from some of the things he said, and frankly, I am not convinced I don't agree with the basic crux of that message, though I dont'think I would have put it that way; maybe that is laughable to say, I grew up in a white house hold, comfortably, my dad was a teacher, my family were professionals, and I was an officer in the Navy. I mean, really what do I honeslty know about growing up either poor, or poor and black? Nothing), Arne Duncan, you know how the tune goes.

I spent 20 plus years in the Navy and I came to realize that not everyone is equally gifter, and so not everyone is going "to make it", as we understand that term to mean. I am no genius, not necessarily a person of highest intellect, or for that matter, maybe not much of a leader, but I do know that is not some abstract intellectual exercise where all we have to do is massage things on the edges and everything will fall into place. I guess I just don't believe the President really gets that.

It is too bad you know, he could have been another FDR. It was all there for him, and he didn't even realize it I think. I guess that is why I was looking for an explanation, and yours resonantes with me.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to reply. I thinK I get it better now, but I really don't know what to do with it. I feel pretty damn depressed. I really appreciate your insight and help with this. I hope my reply makes some sense back.

Listen, all the best to you and yours then, and maybe we'll chat again.

Very respectfully.

Art in Winnipeg.

by acramer on 09/04/2010 02:24:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Most of the country is more Conservative than Liberal, despite what Tiny says...

There are more of us than there are of them...

:)

by bobo1 on 09/04/2010 05:40:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
In these polls, people have until recently been taking very liberal positions on issues. I think the problem is that especially Obama, and then the rest of the Dems haven't really tried to do anything about the narrative.

The issue is really about the narrative. If the other side does all of the talking, not much changes. It is really simple. I don't think people are conservative in what they actually want. The big problem is the don't understand where they need to go to get what they want.

And to whom can be place the fault for this, Obama. He is a complete, dissmal failure. He is a coward, weak, and has almost a halucinatory view of what people want. In actual fact, his election has proven to be worse then getting McCain. This is a real nightmare scenario. He has given the Rethugs the tools to convince people that Govenrment is there enemy; he has reinforced the Regan narrative.

Oh well, Obama is a millionaire. At least he and his family won't have to deal with the effects of his failure. I can't believe it, or maybe I can, but just don't want to look at it.

I am so depressed.

by acramer on 09/05/2010 01:57:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
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