09/02/2010 03:51:07 AM EST

Hamas moderate or extremist?

posted by mcamelyne

Westerners try to classify people as moderate, liberal, conservative, etc.  We do this because its easier to put people in a box that we can understand.  What happens when the boxes no longer work?

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To many people, Hamas is extreme or even a fringe group.  To others they are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people.  While their governance is neither as conservative as say Iran nor as liberal as say Turkey, American Media paints them as extreme.  They are guilty of being honest.  They won't accept a Jewish state.  In truth as Muslims go, they are moderate.

Now contrast them with Fatah.  Here are some real moderates.  Let's see, do you remember Entebbe, the Munich Olympics, the guy in a wheelchair tossed overboard, and Arafat. That's who is meeting in Washington with Pres Obama. These guys are moderates because they are willing to say they will make peace, but are lying.

Here is an interesting expose on Hamas:

http://www.opendemocracy.ne t/article/email/why-hamas-i s-no-extremist

I bring this up because of all the wonderful moderate activities Hamas has gotten itself up to lately.  Like killing innocent Israeli civilians to scuttle the peace talks.

http://israelinsider.net/pr ofiles/blogs/another-shooti ng-attack-north

http://israelinsider.net/pr ofiles/blogs/as-victims-are -buried-calls

These are the kind of moderate Muslims America can do business with.  Exactly the kind that want to build their mosque next the Twin Tower site. In fact if we get any more moderate Muslims in America, we can have our own intifada.

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Hamas moderate or extremist? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden)
It (none / 0)
really doesn't matter in the long run who they are as they are still the DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.......

..It seems alot of people forget that.

We may not like them but it appears the Palastines do as they did elect them.

by dannyhulse on 09/02/2010 04:15:43 AM EST

For the record. (none / 0)
A lot of people do forget that, but mcamelyne did not, so there's really no need for the emphasis in your response to him. He knows.

"Terrorism is the war for the poor and powerless. War is the terrorism for the rich and powerful."

by JamesStevensDigArt on 09/02/2010 05:00:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I know (none / 0)
he said it I wasn't calling him out,

I was just making a statement that the word needs beaten into some peoples heads.

by dannyhulse on 09/02/2010 05:23:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]
yes (none / 0)
They won by keeping people away from the voteing booth, They did not win on the up an up ,They just took over.

by tuna on 09/02/2010 06:37:04 AM EST

I need clarity (none / 0)
It seems as though you are accusing Hamas of these acts. If that is not the case, then ignore the following.

If it IS the case...WTF are you TALKING about??? Where did that crap come from? Who the hell are you listening to?

Here, don't rewrite history, read it.

by MedfordTim on 09/02/2010 08:03:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Since you came out as a Zionist (none / 0)
I really don't take you serious when discussing foreign policy.

A Proud Progressive!!!

by teron678 on 09/02/2010 07:06:50 AM EST

Both, (none / 0)
To many people, Hamas is extreme or even a fringe group.  To others they are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people.

They are both.
Just because people make a decision doesn't make that decision right. We may have to live with it and expect the outcome, but just the fact that something is democratically elected doesn't make it immune to criticism.

I spent 6 months in Gaza a few years ago to hang out with my cousins (my dad was born there).
I would not have voted for Hamas.

by Puffin on 09/02/2010 09:21:23 AM EST

If we respect the Palestinians choices... (none / 0)
why is Abbas in Washington?  Nothing can come from these negotiations if we aren't negotiating with the rightful representatives of the Palestinians.  Waste of time, just for show to keep the economy off the front page.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/02/2010 11:28:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Because Hamas cannot be negotiated with. (none / 0)
Their stated goal is the elimination of the state of Israel.

That's not something you can start with.

by jarett on 09/03/2010 02:33:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Agreed. So why the theatrics in Washington this.. (none / 0)

week?  Hamas is the rightful representative of the Palestinian people.  Abbas's term has expired.  So much for democratizing the middle east.

Instead the US should be engaging Hamas as Fatah are just a bunch of criminal warlords.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/04/2010 08:39:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
guys (none / 0)
hamas is funding hospitals and schools in palestine

thats why they got elected, because they care about the people of palestine

by Restlys on 09/02/2010 11:28:54 AM EST

Another one sided "fact?". (none / 0)
Given that Hamas claimed responsibility for the deaths, let me state uncategorically that I detest these actions and hope they can find alternative ways to express their anger in the future.

Note that "this is the first fatal attack on Israelis in the West Bank since June, when one police officer was killed and two others wounded in an ambush.(1)

Meanwhile, in the month of August alone:

"Between August 1 and last night(Aug 31), 49 Palestinians were killed by Israel Defense Forces fire in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; around 180 were injured, with at least 65 of them sustaining wounds from live fire (including shrapnel from shells and missiles). Thirty of those killed were unarmed civilians. Another two Palestinians, both in their 70s, died of injuries sustained in July.

"Among those killed during the month were seven children aged 15 and younger (including two girls under the age of 10), and two women from the Gaza Strip - one aged 50, the other 86.

"Ten of the Palestinians killed were wanted men, with eyewitnesses reporting that two of them were killed after surrendering to IDF troops. One of the wanted men was killed when the house in which he was hiding was demolished, and another seven were killed in the framework of Israeli assassination operations. Nine civilians who were in the vicinity of such operations were also killed." (2)

I support a two state solution. I support Palastine having it's own country; just as Israel has. I support their right to self govern. I support both their existences.

But, I'm not fucking blind. I see who does the most indiscriminate killing and is the obvious oppressor in this battle for territory. This is a modern, well equipped military going up against The Flintstones and whining when the inevitable retaliations happen.

What would Nelson Mandella do?

by MedfordTim on 09/02/2010 08:19:36 PM EST

We can do the tit for tat... (none / 0)

but I don't support what the Israelis are doing either.  Here are the mortar attacks for the first seven months of the year.  I doubt August looks much different.

"Since the beginning of 2010 until the end of July, 120 projectiles were launched at Israel from the Gaza Strip. The months with the highest incidences of rocket fire this year were March and January, with 29 and 27 rockets and mortars launched at Israel, respectively. The IDF holds the Hamas terrorist organization, as the governing body of the Gaza Strip, solely responsible for these and future rocket attacks emanating from the region and will continue to act in self-defense to prevent future rocket attacks from being carried out."

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/Eng lish/News/today/10/08/1203. htm

They have a nice chart withthe breakdowns, but I couldn't copy it.  That would be the Israeli's reason for attacking and I don't blame them.  If Mr. Flintstone is going to fire mortars at your people, you have to lob a few back.  If you can do it with jets, it makes it more accurate and more comprehensive.  If the Palestinians stop lobbing the mortars, the Israelis would stop the attacks.  Been there done that.

Anyway.  it's not how many people have died this month, it's that these people were killed to stop the peace process specifically.  They weren't killed in retaliation.

Anyway you slice it, that is just wrong.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/03/2010 09:43:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Hamas moderate or extremist? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden)
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