09/04/2010 10:15:24 AM EST

Real news doesn't come from TYT

posted by Aziz1984

The Young Turks is interesting, but still to close to mainstream news. I was looking at this: http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=75nCJ2aCZ6E&feature =sub

This seemed to have more depth than the normal  TYT coverings of the palestine/israeli situation.

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Since The Young Turks tend to get their information from certain mainstream sources, like The New York Times, they tend to be like the mainstream media. They are, of course, more genuine than the mainstream media, because they don't shill out to anyone. While that is the case, they're still not like other alternative media sources.

The clip I have in the intro, I don't see TYT doing the same level of depth and seriousness in reporting as The Real News Network.

They also spend too much time on the fake left/right paradigm. The Left and Right both work for corporate America. Yes, TYT does mention that from time to time, but they switch back to the fake left/right paradigm.

Why don't they also call it like it is? Why do they pretend that the democrats don't get it? Why don't they consistently show it as the democrats doing what special interests tell them to do?

When speaking of the wars, they don't seem to fully see the evils of it. Why don't they see that the wars weren't just from the get-go? I think cent needs to read a little bit of Chomsky.

Then again, I only watch the show from youtube clips and sometimes this website irregularly. I've watched a lot of it, but am not an avid consumer.

What do you guys think?

 

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Real news doesn't come from TYT | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden)
I think (none / 0)
TYT is an opinion show and Cenk is entertaining as hell

Cenk is not a journalist

Never purported to be a journalist and as far as I can tell isnt interested in being a journalist


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 10:37:03 AM EST

I am confused... (none / 1)
Why is Cenk doing the MSNBC if he doesn't want to be a journalist?  A talking head?

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/04/2010 10:41:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Puleeze. (none / 1)
Commentator.

Journalist.

There's a difference.  Try to keep up, okay?

by EveningStarNM on 09/04/2010 01:27:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
there you are (none / 0)
I have changed my mind  and you where right about Iraq

MSNBC should not have made a big deal about the "end of combat operations"  when I now think thats not the case at all

After I learned that NBC/MSNBC was given "exclusive access" it became a story they couldnt turn down

Im a little disapointed in Maddow for joining in

there I typed it

if you feel like you are having a heart attack... dial 911

Ok back on topic


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 03:16:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Commentator's simply give their opinion... (none / 1)

a journalist does the research before giving their opinion.  If Cenk is just a large wind bag like Rush then I wouldn't have much respect for him.  I believe that he actually tries to do some research, that makes him a journalist.

A commentator is a nice word for a "talking head." I doubt Cenk is a talking head.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/04/2010 09:19:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He might be a GOOD commentator (none / 1)
I don't think being a "commentator" is automatically a bad thing, but I think there is something to the idea that "journalist" and "commentator" are separated by a bold line. Maybe journalist minus responsibility equals commentator.

Ergo, commentator minus steady work equals blogger.

Ergo, blogger minus blogs equals Ken.

by OneHitKill on 09/05/2010 07:33:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Well, I can't argue that logic... (none / 0)
still I would prefer he were more journalist.  It would enhance his reputation.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 09/05/2010 09:27:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk is from the Conspiracy (none / 0)

I don't think the Young Turks are corporate shills at all.  They don't have reporters in the field much, instead they do a great job of synthesizing what's going on.

They do the political back-and-forth, D vs. R stuff because it's entertaining.  If you don't get some laughs out of this stuff it's pretty bleak usually.  Also the reason for the cultural news part.

I would agree they don't treat enough the issue of whether the Democrats are all playing a big conspiratorial losing game.  But that's a really complicated question with a lot of different answers.

by Mephisto on 09/04/2010 07:45:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
agree (none / 1)
Cenk, while much better than most, has fallen into the mainstream media circular firing squad. Too often he fails to seperate himself from the mainstream talking points and framing.  That in itself is what will kill the progressive movement.

Very sad to say but every single day TYT gets closer to Bill Press. If I wanted yuk, yuk radio I would be still be listening to Bill Press and Stephanie Miller.

by sisco66 on 09/04/2010 10:44:07 AM EST

Mainstream talking points (none / 0)
Sadly, that's all that interests people.
If it isn't a story on the MSM hardly anybody on this forum wants to discuss anything.
Just look at how many comments blogs get that discuss something else than mainstream talking points (or pop-culture).

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/04/2010 12:56:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
3 out of 10 (none / 0)
Usually peak my interest when I have time to post. It's hard to keep up with it all.  That said, if I want to get deep I just go to Hartman's page. It would be nice if there was some middle ground.

by sisco66 on 09/04/2010 08:29:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
well (none / 0)
I don't really know about "Hartman's page", but whenyou are interested in anything, Der Spiegel is the place to go to, if you want, what would be considered in America to be left-wing news.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/04/2010 11:03:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
news (none / 0)
Cool thanks. I don't really want slant, just facts, or at the very least objective opinion. I will check it out. The guys blogging on Thom Hartmann's site tend to be very detailed on info and cite a lot of thesis level references.


by sisco66 on 09/05/2010 05:11:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Huh? No way! (none / 0)
"Mainstream media circular firing squad"?  "Mainstream talking points and framing"?

Those are just clichés.  Aside from that, I don't think you can't find any mainstream news outlets that offer the kind of perspective the Cenk presents.

Cenk's job isn't to present the news.  His job is to comment on events.  Sure, he's a free trader and sometimes strays too far to the right, not (apparently) understanding the necessity of fair trade.  But, other than that, I doubt that you'll find Cenk's point of view represented in mainstream media outlets.  Even NPR has been dragged from reality to the right.

And that "circular firing squad" comment is not a valid criticism.  We have enemies on the right, and some of them have infiltrated the ranks of the Democratic Party.  Corporatist policies must be attacked wherever they are found.  Right-wing Democrats are as dangerous to our country as Republican right-wingers.

Sure, I'm disappointed that TYT has been reduced to only an hour a day of political and economic commentary.  I agree about the "yuk-yuk" stuff.  But While they might lose one of us who is interested in more serious coverage, TYT will pick up four yahoos who don't care so much.  You can't blame them for going for the money.

by EveningStarNM on 09/04/2010 01:42:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Trade (none / 0)

I take partial credit for Cenk getting better on trade. And trust me, he's much, much better than he was on the issue even just a few months ago.

 

by Tom Hanc on 09/04/2010 02:40:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
good work (none / 0)
Tom, You have been helping Cenk out of the right-wing closet for a long time. The one thing I will say, once Cenk gets all the facts in front of him, he usually figures it out. So keep feeding him the facts.

by sisco66 on 09/04/2010 08:32:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
stimulus & healthcare (none / 0)
are circular firing squads.  The housing issue was coming to a head two weeks ago. No coverage, just NYC BS over and over. Reminds me of Natilie Holloway. TYT needs to be able to cut through the smoke screens as well as beat the drum for people like Geithner, Sommers and Bernanke.

The left needs to learn how to Van Jone's a guy. Considering the amount of evidence on those three it really should not be that hard.

by sisco66 on 09/04/2010 08:36:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Jeez (none / 0)
Whats with all these posts recently?

TYT hasn't changed yet and probably will not undergo any massive change for a while,

It is an Political Opinion show at heart, and has never claimed to be anything else,

I get most of my news from the BBC, The Guardian and The Independent and I watch TYT to get Cenk's and sometimes Ana's take on the story, even though sometimes a story will escape me and I will first hear about it from the show I don't come here for the hard hitting Journalism as much for the analysis.

And the reason I come here rather than anywhere else is for the fact that 90% of the time I agree with Cenk's analysis and because he is bloody fun to listen to.

by dannyhulse on 09/04/2010 11:34:28 AM EST

another TYT fan wakes up (none / 1)
I love this post. HELLLLOOO!  Yes, the Young Turks is not a news show.

We spend too much time on the left/right paradigm?  Shocking.  I hope this isn't news to anybody.  I much prefer the fans who challenge the show rather than become Cenkbots.

Welcome to reality aziz1984. I apologize for the sarcasm; it's just that this is one of my favorite topics.

David

by yturks on 09/04/2010 01:13:56 PM EST

damn it! (none / 0)
to maintain my anti establishment street cred .. I now have to type release the kraken...elbow from the sky  and how awesome Cenk is even if I totally disagree with his premise .

thanks ALOT


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 03:56:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Answers (none / 0)

1. The Young Turks tend to get their information from certain mainstream sources, like The New York Times, they tend to be like the mainstream media. - Correct, but they don't blindly recite that information, but think about it critically and often criticize those mediawhen they obviously failed at doing their job.

2. The clip I have in the intro, I don't see TYT doing the same level of depth and seriousness in reporting as The Real News Network. - Correct, TYT doesn't do journalism. They only state their opinions on whatever real journalists report. For that puropse, presenting a strong opinion is often more important than covering all the details.

3. fake left/right paradigm. The Left and Right both work for corporate America. Why don't they consistently show it as the democrats doing what special interests tell them to do? - Very complex question, but let me put it like this: In contemporary American politics, there is no real Left. The paradigm isn't false. What's false is the way Democratic politicians are called left-wing.

4. When speaking of the wars, they don't seem to fully see the evils of it. Why don't they see that the wars weren't just from the get-go? I think cent needs to read a little bit of Chomsky. - They're getting to it.

by OldGerman on 09/04/2010 01:46:07 PM EST

Huh? (none / 0)
Since The Young Turks tend to get their information from certain mainstream sources, like The New York Times, they tend to be like the mainstream media.

 Where should they get their source material? Grit? The Globe?...Readers Digest?

by MRFred on 09/04/2010 03:21:34 PM EST

lol (none / 0)
I was thinking the same thing

Then what is an "acceptable" news source

The barber?


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 03:52:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
New York Times (none / 1)
I wish the Young Turks got more of their news from the New York Times. In my opinion, the vast amount you can learn from the NYT is not represented on TYT.

David

by yturks on 09/04/2010 06:10:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I know where it comes from (none / 0)
Huff Po

which I consider credible  

They have started a pool of journalists that are starting to create original content  so hopefully they will move away from being just a  news aggregater  


by Chinese Democracy on 09/04/2010 08:28:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
topics not so much the news (none / 2)
I think we all listen to the show for Cenks insight, as well as everyone’s commentary and jokes. My only issue is when Cenk lets the mainstream media drive the news cycle and the framing of the news. He is way too good at what he does for that and it makes the show too commercial.

This is rebel headquarters for Pete's sake.

by sisco66 on 09/04/2010 09:29:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0)
If you want something that might be in America be considered "left-wing" that is really reliable, you want to go to Der Spiegel.
At least they don't have any reason to agree with the Republicunts or the DemocRATS.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/04/2010 11:08:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
well for instancei (none / 0)

http://www.foreignaffairs.c om/

 

If they like reading, but you'd have to be read in on ip-theories, or you'll be terribly confused about the use realism and liberalism.

sig:"TYT: no longer rinkydink"

by wouter666 on 09/06/2010 10:47:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Any chance Cenk might see this thread - Dave? (none / 1)
Cenk is conservative, conventional, in love with America, pro-capitalist, ambitious, and has many blind spots. And he's egotistical and stubborn (not that he never modifies his views, although the process can be painful to watch).

But he means well, and he is a "pro-fessional". And often funny.

And the show does a lot with limited resources. So donations for a cattle prod for David with Cenk's name on it? No?

by Landbeyond on 09/05/2010 02:51:15 AM EST

Ana (none / 1)
Ana go back to serving coffee or spending your parent's money on school. TYT will be better off and you will never have to worry about fixing your hair for the show.

by stevensonbs on 09/05/2010 11:49:20 AM EST

WTF? (none / 0)
where did that come from? and why?

by sisco66 on 09/05/2010 05:13:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So many comments! (none / 0)

I'm amazed at all the comments in a matter of a day!

***

I want to address three things (1) where else can they get the news besides the New York Times (2) the fake left/right paradigm and (3) news analysis.

(1) Cent could, if he wanted, go to the Real News for other sources of information. In fact, if he wanted to give the other side of the economic debate with stimulus and what not, he could also check out: http://dailyreckoning.com/.

(2) Cent consistently talks about how the Democrats don't get it, how Obama doesn't get it. However, he's also stated that the democrats want to follow orders from special interests and blame the republicans for obstructionism. He sometimes states that both sides work for corporate America but than also falls back on republicans are evil and democrats don't get it. I wish Cent would stay consistent and call out the democrats for being corporatist every time they give into republicans. 

(3) I love news analysis, it's a reason I'm a fan of the Daily Show. However, Cent has sent Ana out on the field before and had interviews with many different types of people. His show has done journalism. Regardless, even if we just said it was limited to analysis, their analysis it's as strong as it should be. Look at this analysis from Znet on The New York Times: http://www.zcommunications. org/chavez-security-a-prior ity-by-eva-golinger

by Aziz1984 on 09/05/2010 04:53:06 PM EST

FYI (none / 0)
His name is Cenk, not Cent.

by OldGerman on 09/05/2010 06:45:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
all the ppl with commentator vs journalist. (none / 0)

I hope you see that's kindoff a bad argument. that the mainstream press sucks in their journalistic task and in produce garbage (as Cenk so often claimed they do) might be a fair point. But it's kind of a wierd defense to say that you can't be held accountable for your content, because you only comment on the news that you get from those same media. 

That and the guy has a point, Cenk does see everything too narrowly as right/left (or prog/con) and is not very strong when it concerns foreign affairs. (Which seems a bit strange to me since they have a master in political sciences running around, althought I guess it depends on what you chose to study).

sig:"TYT: no longer rinkydink"

by wouter666 on 09/06/2010 10:33:22 AM EST

as one of those people (none / 0)
that knows the difference between journalism  and opinion media  ... as opposed to the people that watch FOX

I know that a talking head like Cent is expressing opinions and of course should not be held to the same standard as a journalist

I dont know how anyone would know if Cent  is strong on foreign affairs or not since he rarely if ever talks about them

I mean who gives a crap who is having an affair... let it go


by Chinese Democracy on 09/06/2010 01:28:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
my point is not that he should be a journalist (none / 0)

my point is: "garbage in, garbage out"

If his sources are bad (something which he says himself is true), his commentary will suffer. You can say he is critical and does not take everything said in the news as gospel. The problem is that if he solely relies on those newssources, being critical often ends up ends up in only believing what you like to believe.

sig:"TYT: no longer rinkydink"

by wouter666 on 09/07/2010 07:37:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Garbage (none / 0)

The mainstream media isn't 100% garbage, it's just usually that way. I wonder why he can't stick with the non-garbage and analyze the garbage with the non-garbage. Znet does a great job analyzing the garbage of the New York Times.

 The show is enjoyable, and they do a better job than most analyst that are as popular or more popular than them. I just wish it was stronger.

by Aziz1984 on 09/08/2010 10:09:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Real news doesn't come from TYT | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden)
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