02/09/2012 06:45:17 AM EST

Cenk Fucks Up Again

posted by sisco66

Maybe you should listen to Tom. Rather than chasing every political nitch story and nuance of the clown car race you should be paying a little more attention to the current problems the country is facing and the woefully short solutions being offered by the Obama Administration and state AG's.

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At the end of last year, Beau Biden took his dog and pony show on the road stopping at many progressive shows along the way. Being that Delaware was the epicenter of bank deregulation he was going claw back some just rewards. This morning Bloomberg annnounced that a settlement had been reached between the states and the members of banking cabal. Wait, wait, it's huge, 25........Billion. Yep 25 billion, and help homeowners that are underwater.

That does not even cover the bonuses paid out by Tim Geithner through Delaware based AIG Financial, let alone the 10's of trillions looted from the fed in treas in the name of stability. See the housing thread for more on AIG.

Dude, the TV show sucks. It's MSNBC, if I wanted mindless drivel I would watch MSNBC and listen to Bill Press. At this point, you are doing more harm than good.

< Persohood for foetuses | Hey, Where's MY bailout!!!! >
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Cenk Fucks Up Again | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
I can't talk about the show... (none / 0)

because I can't get Current. But, 25 Billion dollars from five banks is not that bad, especially since your claim of tens of trillions is inflated. Sure, they are getting off easy with 25 billion, but it is not chump change, especially since it was agreed to without a protracted legal battle lasting until, say, 2020. Add to that the other legal proceedings going on (e.g. against the Deutsche Bank), and I would say that the government is making an honest attempt to recoup not a small sum of money. Could it be larger? Definitely. Does the whole process seem a little weak sauce on part of the Obama administration? Sure. But, let's not knock the Justice Department too much. In the end, it is putting together a 25 billion dollar deal.

As for Biden agreeing to the deal, I have not read that yet - it seems as if it is being reported that California and New York agreed to the terms.

I agree with everyone knocking Obama, but let's not let it get out of hand. He has accomplished a lot that we should be proud of. Like finally getting all parties to agree to reimbursing the black farmers in the south, something that a Republican president would never have done. Bush sat on the issue and ignored it.

Given the fact that we progressives can't even muster half of the Democratic caucus in Congress, I think that there should be less complaining, and more getting our people elected. If progressives represent only about 20% of American society, then why should we be pissed at Obama when he services the groups of the electorate that hold the power over his presidency and that have the majorities in Congress. Sure, we all hate triangulation. But, let's face it. If anyone is true weak sauce, then it is us progressives. We're so weak, we can't even keep Feingold in the Senate.

I decided in April of 2008 to be an Obama supporter, and I am not going to rescind my support because he is not progressive enough. That's not his fault, that's our fault. Come back when the Democrats control the house, AND when the progressives in the caucus control the caucus (something they hardly did 2006-2010). Don't expect the community organizer Obama to do everything for you, Alinsky writes clearly that we have to invest ourselves in our own cause. Maybe things would go our way more when we elect 30 Feingolds to the Senate and 150 Pelosis to the House.

by unbill on 02/09/2012 08:05:40 AM EST

housing (none / 0)
read the housing post I put up, maybe that will give you a better picture. The gist of the deal from what I have seen is that there will be some mortgage help, and some write downs, but only pennies on the dollar.

The trillions I am speaking of is money given to the banks to prevent them from going under, not inflation. Biden was one of the key people in bringing the MERS claim, he sold out early. Delaware is owned by the banks. Joe Biden cosponsored the 2005 Bankruptcy bill that led to the wosrt of the worst loans and prevented recourse agaisnt the banks for predatory lending practices.


Unfortunately, I know most of this stuff first hand. Believe me, 25 billion is a joke.

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 05:06:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
housing thread (none / 0)
http://www.theyoungturks.co m/story/2012/2/8/215246/140 0/Diary/Housing

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 05:09:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nancy P (none / 0)
is a major part of the problem. By not impeaching Bush, she helped sweep all the war crimes under the table. I sent money to Rus. His mistake was voting for the healthcare bill. He lost support from the true progressives.

On a side note. I think every canidate that Cenk set up call opperations for lost. Joe Sestack(sp?), Grayson, Rus. I forget who else. I know they were the big 3.

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 05:14:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
10's of trillions is inflated, OK 9.2 trillon (none / 0)
I suggest you read Nomi Prins. Her web site trackes all the baliouts. She used to work at Goldman Sachs and was one of the very first to expose what had gone on with derivitives, swaps and 2005 Bankruptcy bill. I think the fed has since released data that would push that number higher.

Just an fyi, the money laundered by Tim Geithner to Goldman Sachs and other big banks for what amounted to bonus money was over 100 Billion. These were nothing more than bets they took out on securities they created it. As I noted in housing, selling fire insurance to arsonist.

http://www.nomiprins.com/st orage/bailouttallyoct2011CL EAN%20NO%20FORMULAS.pdf

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 10:10:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Get your facts straight, (none / 0)

before you going around suggesting that other people are uninformed and that they have to read some random journalists. Your whole "fyi" and "you don't understand" rhetoric rubs me the wrong way.

The difference between "tens of trillions" and 9.2 trillion is at least 10.8 trillion dollars. So I would say extremely inflated.


by unbill on 02/10/2012 07:44:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
facts? (none / 0)
What about the lost wealth they don't have to pay back, like all the pension plans you mentioned? Your lack of understanding rubs me the wrong way.

Say you broke a window, and your mommy bailed you out by paying for it. Someone still lost money on the deal.

Again, not knowing what you are talking about.

by sisco66 on 02/10/2012 05:11:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hmm (none / 0)

Once again, that is your subjective interpretation of what I know or do not know.

My point about the pension funds is that if you sock it to the backs too much, they will fail. It's a catch-22, and, of course, the capitalists win. I'm not defending it. That is just how capitalists work.

Hey, like I said. I feel the pain of homeowners. I really do. But, it's not my battle. I'm not a homeowner, never was. And, if more people had thought in the beginning that this whole ownership society was a scam, then less would be whining now.

These whole petit-bourgeois concerns of yours are rather boring. If you want my solution? Nationalize the banks, tear up the mortgages, make housing public. Your grand idea is letting people knock a point off their interest rate, and you criticize Obama for being timid?

But, until the socialist awakening comes to America, if you don't mind, I'll stick with Obama because I think that he is a good leader, especially in foreign policy, and an excellent commander-in-chief. Would I have liked medicare for all? Sure, but like I have said, progressives were too weak to exercize any meaningful power in the process. And, like I have said, that's our fault, not Obama's fault.

by unbill on 02/10/2012 07:19:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
math (none / 0)
Math and history are not subjective.

sock to the banks to hard and they will take their ball and go home? That sounds like it's right of Atlas Shrugged. We should have put the banks through the same process we put the auto's through. Seemed to work out well there. 

I would have been and still am all for nationalized banks. That is what FDR did. Instead he choose to listen to the peopl who caused the mess.

Maybe if you understood how we got here, you would understand that this is your battle. The largest portion of people out of work are from blue colllar jobs in housing and construction industry, including manufacturing. In my plan we would put those people back to work by including green energy upgrades to homes as part of the refinance, and businesses as well.

The housing, oil and banking meltdown wiped out a large portion of the nations wealth. There is no equity in homes or bank accounts to put the stuff in.

I guess not ever having to pay a mortgage, you don't understand the significant amount of savings that comes by saving a point, and eliminating PMI. PMI being the biggest road block to people refinancing since all there equity was destroyed, if they ever had any. I would say on average it's $200 bucks a month. However, if you are in 6 or 7 percent loan and are going to be able to get down to 3%. That huge.

I would suggest that the next time you want to beat your chest and insult people over subjects you know nothing about, that you simply don't.

As I said, I know most of this stuff first hand. On that point, have you ever lived in public housing? I have. It ain't pretty.



by sisco66 on 02/11/2012 07:01:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
last point, sorry (none / 0)
I have seen a lot of dumb things posted here and elsewhere, including a few gaffs on my own part that I would like to have back. But to think that continued housing meltdown and bank coverups don't effect you takes the cake.

That's like saying the war in Iraq did not effect you because you did not serve. Not only do you need to grow up, you need to wake up.

by sisco66 on 02/11/2012 07:35:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It did negatively affect (none / 0)

the renters and people with pensions as well. You are only ranting about one specific class of people who were affected. And, there were people who paid high rents to avoid the perils of the ownership society. I could have bought a house too at any point in the last 15 years, but instead I chose not to because I wasn't going to invest years of income into something with such a variable value. There was enough academic literature ten years ago warning about the disastrous effects of the ownership society that I was skeptical enough not to buy in. I was awake enough then to pass on the banks' offers that seemed to good to be true.

It is not like there haven't been housing bubbles before in the history of the USA. And, any student of history knows that the little guy gets crushed when things go sour. Sorry that you bought into the scam, and I wish that the government solves the issue for you and your fellow homeowners, even though urban renters will never be reimbursed for the high rents that they paid because of the bubble. That was my point.

But, go ahead, if it makes you feel any better, please use me as a punching bag.

by unbill on 02/11/2012 01:09:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
renters (none / 0)
I did draw a good point from your comment on that, being that high rents forced even more people into bad loans.

I ain't posting on my behalf. I am more or less in the upper class. Unlike you I was trying to solve the nations problem with housing, jobs and the environment.

I have full healthcare, more or less for life. Yet I still push for single payer. It is not about self. It's about us.

by sisco66 on 02/11/2012 02:30:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If you are upper class, (none / 0)

then you should work to convince your class to pay more taxes. Your class is the biggest part of the problem.

The rest of the nation doesn't need your upper class altruism ("I'm not posting on my behalf"), your upper class snobbery ("Your lack of understanding rubs me the wrong way"), and your upper class sense of privilege ("if you want to respond to my threads, bring something to the table").

I thought before that your aggression was because you were hurt by the crisis. Now that I know that you are upper class, I guess that your aggression ("I know better than all of you idiots"; "You need to wake up, grow up") comes from your upper class habitus, from your sense of somehow being better than everyone else. If someone from the lower classes criticizes you, you pounce on them.

Well, Mr. Upper Class, thanks for your concern, but we are still coming for you.


by unbill on 02/12/2012 04:56:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
last chance (none / 0)
I have self corrected this 3 times now, upper middle. I have written numerous post on cap gaines and dividends, taxes ect....

At this point, your are just slinging baseless mud and again have no clue what you are talking about. Go back and read my threads on taxes and healthcare. You will see that I am way ahead of you.

Last olive branch.

by sisco66 on 02/12/2012 07:20:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You have proven once again: Adorno and Horkheimer (none / 0)
were right re: authoritarian personality. Thanks for the exchange.

by unbill on 02/12/2012 08:53:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
no (none / 0)
if you read your comments you will find you represent everything you hate.

Not to mention, you are the outlier that Fox holds up to damn the rest of us with.

by sisco66 on 02/12/2012 09:15:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
and as I noted earlier (none / 0)
this confirms that you don't know the difference between communist and socialist. Maybe you should step into the light of reality and come up with some solutions rather marxist rants.

by sisco66 on 02/12/2012 09:21:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
funny (none / 0)
I started this thread saying that 25 billion was a joke, you said it was plenty. Now your telling me that I need to go after my rich friends? I think that's what I was doing. At least the ones that stole peoples money.

You got yourself in such a lather that you forgot where this started. You got me all wrong. I would suggest that you read my dozens of posts on these subjects, but I don't want to offend you again.

by sisco66 on 02/12/2012 07:47:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
again pension funds (none / 0)
The majority of the assets were not in bank stocks but rather in the mortgaged back securities the banks created and sold. The banks going under would have nothing to do with the value of the fund, MBS or CDS, unless the fund was made up of bank stocks. If the latter was true, it still would make almost no difference since most bank stocks got wiped out by the meltdown and stopped paying dividends.  

Typically pension plans invest in fixed income returns. The banks and moody's lured the pension plans into investing in these high yield MBS or CDS with tripple AAA ratings. When people stopped making mortgage payments that income dried up. The banks did not own the debt, only the service contracts. The pension plans and GSE's own the debt and got left holding the bag.

So now we have determined that you know  very little about housing, banking, the stock market and pension plans. And I am strating to wonder if you know the difference between socialism and communisim. Of course I probably did not spell either of those correctly so, I ain't that smart either.

I would probably draw the line between socialism and communism at free housing for all. There is some truth to the right wing talking points about ownership creates better tenants. Not in all cases, but clearly people with no skin in the game is bad for everyone.

I appreciate you reading my post and at least attempting to comment. I am pretty sure we agree on more other topics like single payer, military spending and trade.

by sisco66 on 02/11/2012 09:12:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I Agree (none / 0)
Biden did exactly what his father, and the rest of these conservaDems, had been doing for the past 15, or so, years. He pranced around with his empty promises like he was fighting for his people, but knowing, full well, that he would give-in to his daddy's administration in the end. Chalk another one up for "shame on me us." (We need to start getting the money up front.)

by David F on 02/09/2012 05:59:55 PM EST

yep (none / 0)
When he was making the rounds about MERS I tired to remind the hosts that it was his dad's bankruptcy bill that was the root cause of the robo signing problem.

Fell on death ears. Even Mike Pap and Sam Seader fell for the BS.

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 06:06:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Deaf ears... (none / 0)
...not death...trust me...

by MedfordTim on 02/09/2012 10:27:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
thanks again (none / 0)
I gotta write this stuff down. Regardless, Death, dead or deaf the outcome was the same. They gave Beau a pass, even talked him up on the last Ring of Fire. Now this.

by sisco66 on 02/09/2012 11:00:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk Fucks Up Again | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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